? RE: CWT bonus flight 01 routing.

[vic365]

A question for you, gang.

I am planning my flight for the CWT09 bonus flight, leg 1 in a 747-400F. I'm using FSNav. If I enter just the arrival/destination airports (KOAK-LFPG), I get a route which goes nowhere near a NAT track...it's more of a "polar route" (I have no idea if that is the correct terminology!). Routefinder, however, wants me to fly to the east coast of the US and hook up with a NAT.



My question is...what would you do (or what would a RW flight do)? Here's a picture...the NAT areas are in the circle. As you can see, a Great Circle Route (the black line) leaves Canada much farther north than any NAT track entry route? I was thinking about using the more northern route (the staright red line).

With "as real as it gets" in mind...how should I plan this first bonus leg?
Thanks for any help, gang.

Vic

[TheDude71]

Vic,
I know this will not answer your question, but I just wanted to show you a picture of FSBUILD's route and you can compair the two. I used to use FSNAV but it does not like vista, so I have not played with it for some time. Anyhow, hope this can help you.

[vic365]

Brett, your FSbuild route seems to follow a more northern route also. It even goes further north, across Iceland, before crossing into northern GB.
After comparing distance and time it is definitely the way to go. It saves me 800 nm and 90 minutes of time...that's alot of fuel!

How do you think FSBuild compares with FSNav, in your opinion? I don't see FSbuild listed in the Navigraph FMSdata download section...does it not have the ability to use the latest AIRAC cycles? I'm looking to replace FSnav with something that uses the latest SID/STARS data and, as a bonus, can download and use the daily NATS and PACOTS tracks.

Thanks Brett.

Vic

[TheDude71]

I have not used FSNAV in along time. I think vista and fsnav did not get along, but I will reinstall it again to double check.

As for you question: FSBUILD 2.2 is for FS9 and FSBUILD 2.3 is for FSX.

FSX http://www.fsbuild.com/

FS9 http://secure.simmarket.com/ernie-alsto ... ld-2.phtml

If you look on the right of the page you will see FSB 2.3 and under that you will see the current Airac Cycle 0902 . What I do is download that and install it into my fsbuild folder and cust copy everything. Works like a charm.

The only thing FSB is missing is the moving map and seeing other aircraft. So in short they are two different animals. I love FSB and have been using it for years. For US flights, I use http://flightaware.com/statistics/ifr-route/
and find my route and copy and paste that into FSB and it build the FP then imports it to FS. There are many planes it will import including PMDG and many others.

Like I said, you lose the map on FSNAV that is pretty cool, but you get a great FP builder instead.

Hope this helps!!

After thinking about it, FSB is not the greatest for sid and stars, but it does have them, for flying in the us is use http://myairplane.com/databases/approac ... php?mode=d

but outside the us like the WCT is used Navigraph nDAC3, which was wonderful.
http://www.navigraph.com/www/default.asp

Its is not very expersive either, but well worth it. O loved it!!

Ok Im done

[TheDude71]

OK I'm not done. FSBuild does have SID'S and STARS. If you go and look at my screenshot, you will see the drop down box for them. I don't use then much (drop down box). I will look at the FP built then go to my FMC and input my SID and STARS in that way. If you paste a FP into it like from flightaware, which has them in the flight plan, it will build the sid and star for you, but if you dont have them, than thats when you would use the drop down box. Make sence??

[TheDude71]

Vic,

I stand corrected. I was able to install FSNav for FS9. It was FSX that I had the problem with. Man. It has been a couple years since I ran FSNav, and I forgot how cool it is. I checked the Navdat site and they don't have SID's or STAR's for it but I was able to install AIRAC902. So back to FSBuild. You can build you plan with that and add the sids and stars, which are pretty current, you might find an old one or two, but they are there non the less, then import it over to FSNav and run that. I will have to play with it to get used to it again, but as long as you get the right sids and stars in fsb they should show on FSNav. Sorry for the bum info earlier....Hope this helps you.

I plan on running the two together and will let you know how that goes.

[Phillip Speer]

Vic,

The majority of west coast USA-Europe flights tend to go via northern Canada, Greenland rather than the NAT track system. This is because it is much shorter than tracking east across the US and joining the NAT system (as your great circle routing shows). It's not a problem not flying with a NAT, remember these are generally calculated for the weather and with the airlines for the preferred routes across the atlantic. It's not uncommon for even east coast US flights not to use them. If you fly online it is perfectly acceptable to file a random routing rather than a NAT you just specify each waypoint eg: (6160N 6150N 6240N 6030N 6020N) instead of including the NAT (CYMON NATT BABAN). As far as routefinder goes then I'll leave it at that FSBuild is far more powerful (never used FSNAV but presume still better than routefinder).

Phillip

[vic365]

Thanks guys!

I just completed CWT bonus 1 and took the route over Canada and Greenland...much shorter and saved a bunch of fuel.

I see how FSbuild works, as far as SID/STARS...the developer has entered into some type of agreement with Navigraph so FSbuild owners get the AIRACs free. As Brett mentioned...you download them from the FSBuild site, not Navigraph.

Brett, just to be sure I understand...FSBuild will export directly to FSNav?

thanks guys.

Vic

[TheDude71]

Yup...got both running right now. Im coming into KJFK, then plan on getting a FDX flight from MEM-LAX after I arrive KJFK. So Im going to open TeamSpeak, and if you want I will walk you through it, real simple!!

Im in the Chat room now : UTC 1757

Or here is the way to set it up:
1; Install FSB
2: Download Airac Cycle 0902 and install
3: Open FSB, click on Options folder on the left
4: Click the NavData tab and push the "Create Fsbuild2 Navdata Indexes. This will build all airways and the like. Takes a min or two.
5: Click the settings tap on bottom of the same page. This is where you tell FSB what weather program you are using and some other stuff. On the left of this page you will see some options for Aircraft and Build with check box's. If you scroll down you will see "Export To" Check the boxes where you want FSB to send the builds to. For example, I have FS 2k/02/04GPS checked, FSNav checked, LDS767 and PMDG 737NG (This will place the FP's in for ALL PMDG products.
6: Click the Export Directories tab to the left of the Settings tab and make sure all are set to the right path.
7: Go back the the settings tab and click Save Config settings.
And Last, look on top and you will see Export To next to file and click on that and choose where you want all exported to. Kind of redundant, but thats how it works. And to play it safe, you can save you config settings again. If you use ActiveSky, you need to have that running before you open FSB, and when it builds your plan, winds aloft are included, which will help with fuel.

Sounds like a pain in the ass, but Im sure once you get into it, you will understand what Im trying to explain. Ill be on teamspeak if you got questions.

[TheDude71]

Hey Jim,

Isn't HIFI developing a program on the likes of FSNav??? I thought I remember you saying something to that effect??

Any news..need beta testers???

[TheDude71]

Vic,

Just wondering how FSBuild turned our for you?

[vic365]

Vic,

Just wondering how FSBuild turned our for you?

Haven't tried it yet, Brett. I'm still debating FSBuild or FSCommander.
Do you know if FSBuild will download daily PACOTS? I see it does NAT tracks but I'm curious if the Pacific tracks can be DL'd by FSBuild, as well.

Vic

[TheDude71]

Vic,

I was not sure so I found this web site: http://www.zak.vatusa.net/tutor/pacots_tutorial.htm

With FSBuild, I made a route of RJAA-KLAX, which would be TRACK 3. After compairing what FSB built and what the web site had, I would say yes FSB has PACOTS within its build. Here is what it built me:

RJAA GUPPY OTR8 KAGIS OTR11 COMFE G344 CALMA G344 CARTO R336 ADK J618 MORDI G8 TESPE R99 AUB B27 RWO GRIZZ B327 HMPTN 52N37 PRETY TAMRU DOLFF TOU J501 PYE 688 SNS J6 AVE FIM KLAX

On the plan I do not see anything saying Track 3, but from what I under stood, this plan is that track.

Thats about all the info I got for you. You can always email Earnie, the devloper of FSB at alstoer1@compuserve.com and I'm sure he will be more that happy to answer any questions you got. You can also compare that plan to FSCommader to which I know nothing about.

Help ya??

[vic365]

Vic,

I was not sure so I found this web site: http://www.zak.vatusa.net/tutor/pacots_tutorial.htm

With FSBuild, I made a route of RJAA-KLAX, which would be TRACK 3. After compairing what FSB built and what the web site had, I would say yes FSB has PACOTS within its build. Here is what it built me:

RJAA GUPPY OTR8 KAGIS OTR11 COMFE G344 CALMA G344 CARTO R336 ADK J618 MORDI G8 TESPE R99 AUB B27 RWO GRIZZ B327 HMPTN 52N37 PRETY TAMRU DOLFF TOU J501 PYE 688 SNS J6 AVE FIM KLAX

On the plan I do not see anything saying Track 3, but from what I under stood, this plan is that track.

Thats about all the info I got for you. You can always email Earnie, the devloper of FSB at alstoer1@compuserve.com and I'm sure he will be more that happy to answer any questions you got. You can also compare that plan to FSCommader to which I know nothing about.

Help ya??

Yepper...thanks, bud! Research to continue.

Vic